The Flagship Pod: Web 3.0, Favorite Crypto's of 2022, Healthcare, Inflation & More!

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Peter Starr:

And now coming to you live from our coast to coast trading desk, this is the Flagship Pod, a weekly live podcast brought to you by Moby.co. As always I'm your host, Peter Starr, bringing you this time an awesome discussion about all things crypto, everything happening in terms of this resurgence we're seeing today, the market bouncing back, right at the very end. We get the tiniest little Santa bump as well as some really cool updates in terms of thinking about healthcare, stocks, as well as the future of aerospace. We have a really tight 30 to get through ladies and gentlemen. So let's go ahead and get right into it. As always ladies and gentlemen, I'm joined by Justin Kramer, Co-Founder and Chief Analyst here at Moby.co. Justin hell of a year, man. Lots of really great analysis. How do you feel about it so far, dude? What's going on?

Justin Kramer:

Yeah, definitely a crazy year. Every year seems crazier than the next, but this year in particular, there's a lot going on, especially coming, it's the end of the year. It's from an investing perspective, super interesting seeing the index up so much, but a lot of stocks down, especially the ones that people have been investing in the first half this year. So it's all a crazy ride into next year and really looking forward to it.

Peter Starr:

Exactly. Yeah. I'm also excited for it too. It's just 2022 is going to be a year very considered investing as we begin to watch your interest rates hike up. Here at market close, though, we can just kind of appreciate us finally making a beautiful sprint to the end of the year. Markets are up pretty well. We got that tiny little Santa bump. I think the main news that people are kind of curious about is, after all of the sell-offs we had in the past month, crypto's on a big, big run. Solana's up big, Bitcoin's up big. Ethereum's almost up as big as all of them, but we're kind of getting back to those original levels and breaking through those resistance lines. When you're looking at the numbers though, Justin, what do you see there? What's going on in the crypto space that's causing this resurgence? Is it just us following the Santa bump? Or is there something that I missed here man?

Justin Kramer:

No, I think it's a good question because right now there's not a single factor to point towards to say it's due to this. It's not due to this. There was an interesting chart. I think we called out the Discord channel for those of you who saw that basically without boring you guys with the details, basically when interest rates rise typically risky assets like crypto, like technology, things of that nature start to slide because the risk reward just isn't there. So the thought historically has always been crypto is a risk-on asset. So in a risk-off environment, it's been thought that crypto wouldn't do well. But what we actually saw over the last almost year now at this point was crypto, their pricing, granted it was a little bit more pronounced, but crypto pricing follow the rise and fall in interest rates.

And so the interest rates haven't been too drastic of terms of rising and falling. But when you look at the 10-year treasury this year and you map it against crypto, there's really been kind of a very strong correlation. And so right now, since earlier this December, we saw a low and it's been rising a little bit, nothing substantial, but it could describe over the last week or two, why we're seeing that rise up as they potentially continue to stay correlated. Outside of that, I think we're just looking at normal kind of peaks and valleys in the crypto world, how we always have in terms of there's just so much volatility. There's so much noise going on. There's so much investing, so much selling. It's just, it's going to be a roller coaster for here for a very long time. We're not, if we're using our baseball analogies, we're still in the second, third inning of this stuff. There's just, there's so much going on. They're literally reinventing the internet right now, so it's going to be a multi-year process.

Peter Starr:

Precisely. And it's one of those things where it's simultaneously got more potential, but also far more complications than Web 2.0, so just watching Web 3.0 get built live is really interesting. Not only that, but I also think it's way more exciting because we had the .com bubble back in 2000 where half the world wasn't really paying attention to tech and the other half was way too positive on it. Whereas, this time we have a lot more eyes on Web 3.0 as it gets built. Right? So the main question is, what projects are going to work out? Is there going to be a lot more competition? And I think the main difference between 2000 and 2020 is just the amount of attention being poured into the Web 3.0 space. And so what you're seeing is you're seeing a lot of really competitive projects kind of trying to accomplish the same goals necessarily.

And, people just kind of reaping upside through that competition, so that's kind of the environment that considered investors thrive in is the kind of environment I love bring more competition. Let's go baby. Break up monopolies. Let's get some shareholder value. Right? And so what you've seen emerge in our writing about crypto is that we've been kind of focusing on the chief issue of crypto needing a, not necessarily a stable coin, but an algorithmic reserve currency. Right?

Two weeks ago, we did a lot of work on, actually, it was just last week, wasn't it? Jesus. It feels like a month ago. Last week we talked a lot of about Olympus DAO, how they're trying to play the reserve currency game. And this week we finally did reporting after calling it out in the Discord for a while. Terra, right? We had a lot of really interesting perspectives in terms of trying to figure out this pricing structure. So we talked a lot about Olympus last week. So Justin, why don't you give me your views on Terra this week? You called it out before it kind of had a brilliant 10,000% rise. Take me through some of the ideas you have for Terra, of how it kind of defers from your classic DAO play and why you're kind of bullish on it moving forward.

Justin Kramer:

Yeah. So Terra's like been on an interesting run this year. We called it out earlier this summer and it wasn't really from an investing standpoint, it's more a trading. There was like some real institutional assets behind it, still super young and still super young today. That hasn't changed. But we were trading it from a trading perspective and so something that was short-term and that was around $10. And now it's near $80, $90. So it's been up seven, 800% since then. So the rise has been meteoric, and so with that rise, they've attracted more investor attention, attracted more retail attention. And basically in a nutshell, what they're doing is very interesting. So some of these other algorithmic Stablecoin projects, or just other projects that are giving you crazy yield, it has the potential to just come crashing down one day because there's no actual inherent reason to hold the coin.

It's just to get paid. Whereas, with this, this is a project that's actually has real use case and actual adoption, just not in the U.S. Yet. So for example, if you go to the store and you buy something with a credit card and in the U.S. and most of Western Europe, it's going to be either Visa or MasterCard or American Express. You're not paying a fee, but the merchant's paying a fee and the merchant may very well end up charging you more, which means you're inherently paying the fee as well. And so the fees can range. At the minimum they're usually two, 3%. And so that's obviously quite expensive for merchants that are doing significant revenue. You do the math. When you start moving into the millions, hundreds of millions of dollars, you're paying these credit card companies a ton of money.

So what Terra is doing is trying to fight down and push down the fees for merchants and give them more Stable Project. And so they have two different coins. One is the actual Stablecoin itself, and that maintains a dollar, a value close to the dollar. And the other one is a coin that is meant to be held for investing purposes. And so right now in Asia, there is some real adoption, especially in Korea right now, where merchants are using this. And the purpose of it is the coin, the more it's used, the more adoption it's used, the more Terra or more Luna rather that is ultimately burned and ultimately held. So you're kind of betting on the adoption here. And as more and more people use Terra, the more and more the value of Luna has literally has to go up.

So it's really been on a meteoric rise over the last week or two. And with, when anything moves up so much, I'm skeptical to add to the position. But again, depending on economy, your long-term or your time horizon in general. If you're looking at this over 10 years and it's at $80 today, are you going to be mad if you bought it at $150 if it goes up to a thousand? Or if you're doing it in short-term, then yeah, you are going to be mad cause you're going to end up potentially losing some if it crashes.

But when it, Bitcoin, for example, when it goes up to 60 K a coin over the last decade, if you bought at $2000, you bought at $4,000, maybe that's a hundred percent difference back then, but today, there's still captured 80, 90% of the upside. So long story short, I think it's a really interesting project. Again, this is, it hasn't even been around for over a year yet. So this is going to take years and years and years to play out. But this has a really high upside potential and is already the ninth biggest coin. So people are discovering it.

Peter Starr:

And I think that gets into a key thing our audience is asking us about because we have been very inflation focused for the past, I would say six months. We've been thinking it's coming for a while ever since 2020. And we've been saying, hey, this is potentially happening. What the hell's going on Jerome Powell in the Fed? And for finally last week, we got the relief. We got the resolution from answers from the Fed in terms of, yes, rates are probably going to be raised three times across 2022. The asset pressure purchase program is going to go down to zero. It's not just taper time. It's taper cliff time boys. And so I think one thing that people have been asking us about is, okay, how do I become, how do I change my style of investing to be more considered during this period?

And I think that's what's driven, that's kind of the market force driving you and me Justin, to think deeply about a lot of these new and emerging crypto projects because gone not necessarily gone, but we are getting out of the period where we could just throw a bunch of money into a bunch of growth stocks and get ludicrous returns during the high growth environment of 2020. Now we are in this value period where our more traditional investments need to be far more considered. But we still want to see if we can't capture some of these large upsides. So that's why we're thinking about Olympus DAO. That's why we're thinking about Terra and Luna. And that's why we're thinking about other crypto projects, because you need to, if you want to, maintain some portion of your speculative budget, that needs to be a bunch of very small investments in emerging projects kind of spread around so you can capture some potential large upside.

So when we think about crypto that's the main thing because it still remains to be seen how crypto and the rest of the market respond to a truly inflationary environment. Is it, is Bitcoin truly an inflation hedge? Is it not? We're still sussing that out. So the only real answer we have is that it's going to be a volatile. It's going to be a choppy first half of 2022. So when we bring you ideas and research, that's what we're thinking about. But when we bring you stocks, we're going to be bringing you more of the value plays because honestly that's the main, that's the main thing that needs to happen. And I was just vamping while Justin got kicked for a second, because Discord super great service, really love it a lot. But just-

Justin Kramer:

I'm back.

Peter Starr:

... Sick. And Justin, let me just bring you back around to this. So one really strong value play is always going to be healthcare. And so I really loved the perspective you had a little bit earlier in the week, Justin, as you kind of brought us two of the major healthcare stocks to think about, because it's not just that healthcare is a value play. It's that healthcare and finally is responding to market pressures and is really healthcare companies are finally trying to own the doctor-patient relationship and trying to find upside outside of just the ludicrously complicated administrative environment we have in American healthcare. So Justin, can you kind of take me through some of the thoughts you have as two, as two major healthcare organizations start to really think about owning that doctor-patient relationship and how that, what that, how that kind of translates to shareholder value over time?

Justin Kramer:

Yeah, definitely. It's interesting right now, too, because there's a theme going on that people aren't talking about and it's kind of the verticalization of companies. So Tesla, for example, is trying to become vertically integrated and that is the most boring fucking term in the world. But basically what it means is you own also parts of the supply chain. Listen, Tesla doesn't have, they're not mining lithium, but they're trying to create the battery in-house. They're trying to do production in-house, shipping in-house, so they're trying to own the entire part of the supply chain so they don't have to rely other companies. It's really expensive to do that. But in the long run, it potentially, if you're really good at it can be very, very profitable as well as kind of foolproof in a sense that you don't have to worry about other people fucking you over.

And so Tesla is doing it. D.C. companies are doing it. It's really become more of a theme. And now we're really seeing this move over into healthcare. And so is an insurance company like United healthcare the most boring company in the world? Probably. But that doesn't mean what they're doing isn't working and right. There's a reason that they're up more than the S&P. They're up more than so many tech companies. They're up more than Amazon this year and a handful of others. So, it might be a boring insurance company, but it pays a dividend and it's growing faster than others. So to Peter's point, what they're doing well right now is kind of being that vertically integrated player. So they do insurance and now Optum who they've had in their portfolio for a while, but is really continue to shine is going to be this vertically integrated healthcare system for them.

So what that means is their entire future there on the, well, first off Optum is broken into three areas. There's healthcare services, there is their technology and data, and then they have their pharmacy arm. And so specifically one of their fastest growing arms is their healthcare arm. And so one of our themes for 2022 is that managed services, managed healthcare, becoming really a big theme. And so what Optum's doing very differently than most is a lot of people focus on the specialties, like getting, going to a heart doctor, to a brain doctor, to all these specialties that make a lot of money and high margins. But what United's doing very differently than the rest which is super interesting is they're actually going after and acquiring primary care doctors, which doesn't make a lot of money because it's usually routine stuff and they don't get paid a lot.

But what's really interesting is they're surrounding all of their specialty doctors with more primary care doctors. Because when you go to a primary care doctor and you have something wrong with your knees, your neck, your back, your head, they send you to the specialists. And so they literally own the weed gen and weed funnel of all of healthcare. And so they're going out and acquiring massive, massive groups across the country, and they already have the specialists kind of in their network as well. So they're going to be in a position if they continue expanding to literally own all of retail healthcare, which is a pretty insane statement. And then on top of that, they have, they're also the biggest insurance company in the world. So they're going to have a ton of overlap in terms of which of their doctors take certain insurances, pricing, other insurances out of market.

Justin Kramer:

There's going to be checks and balances. It is monopolization to a certain extent, but they are really like exploding in growth. It's crazy for a company of their size, especially in insurance to have this growth opportunity, but with so many people starting to go back to the doctors like over the next few years, it's really like a pretty sick opportunity. And then the other one we talked about was CVS. So CVS is also interesting, kind of for a similar sense, except they obviously don't have the insurance capabilities, but what they do have is the in-store pharmacy. And so what they're doing is surrounding also primary care doctors and co-locating other doctors in their pharmacy arm. And so that, again, creates a more vertically integrated system where they're not losing money to Walgreens and potentially other pharmacies.

They have one-stop-shops for all of your medical needs for most of Americans in terms of things that are routine. And so that pairing with urgent care pairing with these other things, they're also exploding. And again, another reason why they are up more than most companies, they're up almost 50% this year, and they're really actually investing in technology and their team is very, very proven successful. So these are two historically very sleepy healthcare companies that are honestly exploding. They're up a ton this year. And I really think they're going to be up a lot next year. They have an amazing opportunity over the next few years.

Peter Starr:

And I think what's really exciting about that too, is you realize this is just these really large slow organizations finally kind of waking up smelling the coffee and reacting to the market forces that have been shaping a lot of industries across the last five years. And that's me specifically talking about the largest players in the game, just deciding one day to come into your industry and mess everything up. There's always been rumblings about both Apple and Amazon getting into healthcare. Amazon has been making a lot of interesting health-based acquisitions and also trying to get into wearables game the way Apple watch is. And so that's the main thing that a lot of people are really concerned about is as Amazon tries to own that doctor-patient relationship and use its logistical prowess to break into the healthcare space, a lot of these old providers are realizing I have to do something because Amazon can basically cut a company's market cap in half with a press release.

You may remember back in the day when Amazon announced that they were going to do meal delivery services, how a bunch of meal delivery services stocks just completely tanked overnight, just off of Amazon just doing a Jedi mind trick, essentially. So keep that in mind as well. I guess, Justin, that does bring me to an audience question specifically about both Amazon and Apple. As you watch United and CVS kind of adapt and use the advantages they have to make sure they stay relevant in this market, do you see some of the big, the giant players, the Amazons, the Apples of the world coming in and making a healthcare play as well, which could potentially damage some of the subside or is that just tech company hornswoggle?

Justin Kramer:

I'm on mute. I just froze. Sorry. No, I mean the big guys definitely are going to get there, but they're going to get there in a different sense. So Apple is obviously making a strong push into healthcare. They have been for a while, but they're not going at in a similar sense. I don't see Apple ever being a provider of medical services. I see Apple providing medical service companies with better information and better data or other health tech companies. So their wearables department is just so big and is continued to expand and they are going to be in a position to start feeding other companies that information and data. And so in theory, one day, maybe a lot of routine visits and be done through a combination of their technology and then other health tech providers, like K Health is a big provider that's based out of Israel.

And so these routine things that historically you've had to go to the doctor for, maybe they're able to displace that. But outside of that, I don't see them ever getting to the area of actual managed services or managed healthcare. They're just always going to be a tech enabled solution. But yeah, they're expanding like crazy. That's going to be a huge theme for them outside of the Apple car, which is going to be, and now VR, which is going to be huge as well. They're just so adept at tackling so many issues. They can't do everything amazing forever, but they've done it to date. So we'll see how it plays out.

Peter Starr:

Exactly. And audience, what I really appreciate is you asking questions like this to keep us on our toes and make sure that we're adapting this conversation to exactly your needs. So if you have any questions at all, we have here in the actual live conversation, we have voice chat feel to ask us anything about literally anything at this point because remember the inflationary pressures we're experiencing make us have to be very specific and considered. So we can kind of bounce around a lot as we think deeply about investing in this new environment. At the same time, if voice chat doesn't work, you can literally just DM me. That works as well. And if you're listening to the recording here and want to hear more from us, always feel free to email us [email protected]. We always want to make sure we get you the right perspective you need.

So as we keep rolling through this, I guess the main question is we're really excited about this, the teeny tiny little Santa rally we had, but now it is okay, I'm going to kind of take a breather this week. Next month, next year, whatever I'm going to wake up and start playing a lot more of that value game. That's what I'm seeing a lot too. So we've got healthcare. We've got sort of considered plays within the crypto space. What other industries are you looking at Justin, as the main games to play right now, as we sort of kind of brace ourselves for the pressures that'll come from rates being raised throughout 2022?

Justin Kramer:

Yeah. There's a lot to be looked at. Again, it's boring, but defensive stocks do well, typically in a rising interest rate environment where people aren't necessarily spending as much, or they're more in kind of savings mode, especially as the economy and inflation has just been insane. And so consumer staples, I'm not necessarily suggesting they invest in that. But those are safe plays in this environment. Defensive stocks, airlines, healthcare services, financials, there are stocks like that should do well. Obviously nothing's guaranteed. So we're going to be looking at that. And, a lot of it, I don't think has been priced in yet. So if you look at like the S&P and you're looking at like the multiples in terms of price earnings, they're still ridiculously high, even with the pullback.

So like three interest rate hikes potentially next year, or through the course of 2023, tapering, it's still not fully priced in yet. So like, we're going to until multiples get compressed further, I still think we're looking at a period where this first pullback last week or even the week before is kind of the first of potentially a few. I'm not raising the white flag yet. But I'm definitely let's start getting a little bit more defensive. Let's be smart about it. Let's take to your point, you talked about this earlier. Let's take almost a VC approach mindset for some of the crypto coins, put a small amount in a decent amount of projects. And the one that hits is going to make you a ton of money. You just, you got to be really smart, throwing a dart at a wall, hitting a stock, the way that you did it over the last few years and chances are it went up is just, it's not going to work the same next year.

Peter Starr:

Exactly. And I think one thing we're doing here, too, is as we sort of think about getting into 2022 and thinking about our investing strategies there, we're just talking about inflation. But there are other market forces that we need to keep in mind as well. One that kind of, we talked a lot about the beginning of this week and one that's going to come up a little bit next week in our research too, Justin, is the idea that retail may actually take a haircut here. And that's something that our audience is very interested in and curious about. Some of the best picks we made this year, like Lululemon and Dick's Sporting Goods performed brilliantly despite ludicrous supply chain issues and just the world being shut down as all of our spend shifted from services to goods, essentially.

So there was a lot of reasons for retail to go down this year. But if you were smart like Dick's, Lululemon, Best Buy, those kinds of companies, a lot of reasons to go up as well. And so I guess the major question is, that has, that seems to be a situation coming on credit, as you see retail, the growth in retail spending massively outpacing the growth in the growth of income growth. Right? So the main question is, do you think the party is of beginning to end for retail as you kind of, as you kind of monitor the situation moving forward? How do you think about watching the signals in terms of contagion events and wondering if retail spend is going to actually tank?

Justin Kramer:

Yeah. So it's hard to definitively say that it's over yet. My guess is not yet. We're still kind of in this upslope because, yes, inflation is spiking like crazy. And things are crazy expensive. But that affects more people who are like buying repeat things. So you go to a store and you buy eggs, you notice the eggs are more expensive. You buy gas, you'd notice it's more expensive. If you're going to Nike and buying shorts, you're not paying attention and say you're not buying shorts every single week. So you're, oh, these pair of shorts should be $45. And they're actually $47. So the inflation doesn't hit them as hard because you're not a repeat customer there. But having said that, the pent-up demand eventually has to decrease and rewind to 2020. We were locked at home for an entire year.

No one was going to Nike. No one was going to these stores, because why? Why are you buying clothing? There's just there, you weren't wearing it. You weren't, I was wearing the same pair of sweat pants every day for a month. But now with the world reopening, people will want to buy stuff. And so there's been that huge pent-up demand, especially with stimulus and some other things to buy retail goods. And so with asset prices staying inflated and people feeling wealthy, I don't think that's going to pull back soon. I think it's going to take a pullback in the market for retail demand to actually to start to dip, but it doesn't look like that's happening yet. And so I said before with, I think more dips are coming. When they're coming [inaudible 00:24:47] say, but I think retail growth is going to kind of tank shortly thereafter, especially when you look at Nike, for example. Nike reported unbelievable results just this week.

Justin Kramer:

And that's a continuation of the story over the last year. And so there's no reason that can't continue and it probably will. But whether it's next earnings report, the earnings report after that or the one after that, eventually it's going to tank the other way. And so we've had a ton of upside on Nike. We've had a ton of upside on Dick's. We're going to continue holding on to them for a little bit longer. But I'd rather get caught and sell 10% from the top than all of a sudden have to hold all the way through one or two year bare period. Getting in at the absolute bottom and selling at the absolute top is never done by any investor ever. So just got to be smart. See where the peaks and valleys are starting to approach and get out even if it doesn't mean you're not getting a hundred [inaudible 00:25:43].

Peter Starr:

And I love that. I think it's a really good way to end this because the way we talk about the stock market and the way the stock market actually performs, they're on extraordinarily different scales. And so we say, "Oh, inflation's coming. Retail's going to have a pullback." If it does, it's going to be a very slow one. And that's something to keep in mind. When we, it takes me 35 seconds to describe a market force. But it takes six to 12 months for the actual results of that to play out across your portfolio audience. So keep that in mind. The way you talk about investing and the way you talk about the stock market can make you very, very reactive, very, very jumpy, when in fact you need to be slow considered and kind of watch the numbers over time.

So I love the questions I got from you audience. I love the perspective we have here. Justin, as always, I'm always amazed that we get through these as fast as we do. This did not feel like 30 minutes. It felt like three. But I guess we're right here at the very end here. We try to keep it to a tight 30. So Justin, any final thoughts from you as we kind of roll into the holidays in the New Year? Is there anything we should be doing to reflect on during this kind of breather we'll have between Christmas and New Year's? What's the deal here, man? What's your final thoughts?

Justin Kramer:

Yeah. I think going into the end of the year, it's going to be, I've been saying this every single week. So for those of you who've been listening, I'm sure it's boring at this point, but for newer listeners, it's just a continuation of this choppiness in the markets. And so last week we were down, this we're up. It's just going to continue being like this. So seeing the choppiness is just going to drive you crazy. But again, try and help. Try and spot trends. We're not, patting my own back here, but listen to some of the stuff we say. You don't have to agree with all of it. You don't have to disagree with all of it. But hopefully it'll just make you think about things a little bit differently so you can be a smarter investor. So if you think a tops coming and you think things are going to sell-off then you can sell it and vice versa.

If you see a really good opportunity, you think something sold off, go for it. We're looking at NEO right now, for example. And I've been trying to wrap my head around this for a long time now, but Chinese stocks, not to get this too much of off to a tangent, but Chinese stocks are, potentially a lot of them, are going to get delisted in America because they're not adhering to the same financial kind of overall what you need to do from a financial reporting perspective that other American stocks are. So their at-risk of getting delisted. And so that's why we've seen a huge self this year outside of China here. But NEO is also down 50% from its highs. And it's a stock that's exploding in growth. So it's, are we almost at the bottom?

Justin Kramer:

Are we, is it going to go down another 20, 30%? Is it going to get delisted? And we're just going to completely lose everything? Or for a company that's actually doing some pretty cool shit, are we comfortable initiating a position? So finding bottoms or spotting trends before they happen is pretty difficult, so advice to everyone is just be very thoughtful in this kind of environment. There's a lot of people acting like they're fucking geniuses more or less. So just make sure you're being pretty diligent.

Peter Starr:

Exactly. And I think that's the main thing to keep in mind too. The past year and a half has made it very, very easy for people to appear like geniuses as well, given just the extraordinarily high growth environment we had. A lot of tech stocks really carried the market, so to speak, as they just rode to truly ridiculous highs. So watch that as well. You're going to see a lot of, you're going to see a big pullback in the smugness index as people don't necessarily get washed, but as the market becomes a little bit harder and a little bit more considered to predict. And so that's the kind of environment that I personally thrive in and that's the kind of environment I'm the most excited for as I move forward. And audience, I really appreciate your questions. I really appreciate your time as well. If you have anything else for us, audience, again, feel free to DM me here on Discord. At the same time, again, feel free to email us at [email protected]. At the same time, we didn't even get into the analysis we're doing on aerospace lately. Go ahead and check out youtube.com/c/mobyinvest for our latest ideas in terms of who we think is going to win sort of the middle class of this new and growing aerospace industry. I'm super excited about this. I made a video that was essentially just a Christmas present to myself.

Otherwise, audience, it's just been really awesome having you here. Justin Kramer, Co-Founder and Chief Analyst here at moby.co. Again, I really appreciate your time, audience. Thank you so much for being here. Go ahead. I'm just going to go ahead and read the credits. This podcast is produced and hosted by me, Peter Starr Northrop. As always our, all of our analysis, mostly all of our analysis, comes from our Co-Founder and Chief Analyst here, Justin Kramer. Any questions for us, you can hit us up at [email protected]. Otherwise, audience, I really appreciate your time. Thank you much for being here with us. And as always, we'd like to leave you with peace, love and incremental gains. Everyone be well. Thank you so much.